Curse

Thom Bangalter · Nov 23, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

I didn't have heroes when i was r0. Guess what i played...
Less crying is key.

People like to play things that will hand them their rank, because it's easier. I'm guilty of it too, but the nature of emotes encourages the behavior.

B Ephekt · Nov 23, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

HA is still fun, it is still competitive, it is exactly the same gameplay whether your fighting people or bots, so there isnt any way you can say that adding heroes to it has decreased the fun or competition in HA.

First off, the fact that tons of people have repeatedly stated that they don't find fighting heroway to be fun pretty much proves you're only speaking for yourself. Second, your statement is quite a contradiction.

Quote:

ANET did already decide what was best by adding heroes to HA.

No, this thread is proof that Anet is considering the addition of heros to be a mistake, or at least a poorly implemented change. Thanks to players speaking their minds and voicing their frustrations, we can clearly see that a majority of tombs players DO NOT enjoy having heros in pvp.

Quote:

If you cant adapt to the changes like the majority of players have, thats your problem.

I have adapted; I've probably killed poor Dunkoro and Acolyte Sosuke 100s of times now. The problem is, I don't enjoy it.

Also, your own statements can apply to your previous posts about not liking PUGs. If you can't play with human players, then tough, adapt to it. (I'm not even going to seriously tell you that, I'm just pointing out that your own logic can apply to your previous statements.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Ive just been playing HA for the last several hours as monk and paragon, and I can say the problem isnt heroes, but the stupid builds the people use.

These builds are due to flaws in the tombs format itself, which certainly needs to be addressed, and has been discussed elsewhere. However, heros only make the issue worse.

Quote:

I have yet to play in a Rank 6+ team that has beaten a mystic wrath spike.

Remove enchantments, interrupt blessed sig, drop NR, kill them. I fail to see how this is even a valid point, though.

Quote:

Even if they remove heroes and all you old players return to HA, all your going to be doing is your new IWAY equivalent builds which are so much worse.

Oh, you mean balanced? Yeah, I forgot how lame and gimmicky that was.

Quote:

And I would like to point out that its you and B efket that are doing the first lot of flaming here. I can garantee im a lot more social then either of you, and if you consider playing computer games an act of sociality, your a sad freak.

I never flamed you, I simply said your insults were childish. Your entire succession of posts in this thread have amounted to "if you don't agree with me you're and idiot" and "if you're higher ranked than me you're a loser with no life." Read back beyond the the past few posts, nobody has been anything but civil until you showed up calling people idiots and losers.

tomcruisejr · Nov 23, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

rofl, if it wasnt for Borat no one would know Kazakhstan.
And btw its competitivness not competitivity, unless I am mistaken of course.

LOL. i'm impressed that someone is getting the joke and is riding on it

God Apprentice · Nov 23, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

That's true Thom. My personal absolute feeling on Heros is that there is a arena called Hero battles for it, this is where Heros should only be used, otherwise why have that arena?

God Apprentice · Nov 23, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

First off, the fact that tons of people have repeatedly stated that they don't find fighting heroway to be fun pretty much proves you're only speaking for yourself. Second, your statement is quite a contradiction.

No, the thread is proof that Anet is considering the addition of heros to be a mistake, or at least a poorly implemented change. Thanks to players speaking their minds and voicing their frustrations, we can clearly see that a majority of tombs players DO NOT enjoy having heros in pvp.
I have adapted; I've probably killed poor Dunkoro and Acolyte Sosuke 100s of times now. The problem is, I don't enjoy it.

Also, your own statements can apply to your previous posts about not liking PUGs. If you can't play with human players, then tough, adapt to it. (I'm not even going to seriously tell you that, I'm just pointing out that your own logic can apply to your previous statements.)

These builds are due to flaws in the tombs format itself, which certainly needs to be addressed, and has been discussed elsewhere. However, heros only make the issue worse.
Remove enchantments, interrupt blessed sig, drop NR, kill them. I fail to see how this is even a valid point, though.

Oh, you mean balanced? Yeah, I forgot how lame and gimmicky that was.

I never flamed you, I simply said your insults were childish. Your entire succession of posts in this thread have amounted to "if you don't agree with me you're and idiot" and "if you're higher ranked than me you're a loser with no life." Read back past the the past few posts, nobody has been anything but civil until you showed up calling people idiots and losers.

Yes my apologies if my last few posts have seemed to have been a flamefest between myself and him/her.My intent was not to come off that way, but to show that playing with Heroes is not learning, and offering the example of looking for people who have all skills unlocked as someone who could run his/her build. I just can't see how someone thinks they are so absolutely right in thinking that Halls is the same now as it was then, and then telling me that because I use vent with the guild, we are not "socializing", and do not know what real socializing is. B Ephket your points here are very good, and indeed Gaile did make this thread to address how Heroes should be handled, whether it be reduction or total elimination. Oh and off topic I like your avatar lolz

SilentVex · Nov 24, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Did I say that? Thats just ranked idiots like you being pure retards that claim to play HA when you dont want your next rank or any fame? Well DUH fame is what HA is about.

I play HA to earn FAME like 90% of people that play it do. If I get more fame using heroes then rank 6 players, I'll use heroes. Its a lot quicker and I dont have to put up with stuck up GW addicts/freaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

And when they rush in and start the timer, it doesnt bother me in the slightest whereas idiots like you would be screaming ZOMFG YOU 4AR TEH NOOOBZ ZOMFG RAGEQUIT!!!11111 [...]

Its these people that ruin the game, not heroes.

You know what I find funny about these arguments, every person that is ranked is clearly a complete prick, a GW addict/freak, and yells in leet speak at "NOOOBZ" that set off the timer. Man have you got me nailed to a T. Take a look around you bhavv, you're the only one here throwing insults in the midst of many ranked players. Who ruins the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I know many people in game that prefer the use of heroes, why ruin it for them because your the ones that cant play the game?

You're absolutely right. People playing a video game solely to have fun clearly can't actually play the game, and are ruining it for the ones trying to grind out their next rank.

Gaile, sorry this thread has gone out of control, but lets both be honest for a minute. The bottom line isn't that heroes are in HA, it's not the 6v6 switch, and it's not the map changes. The bottom line is that HA isn't innately friendly to new players. Anet has tried the above to bandaid the situation and make it more friendly to all skill levels. The thing is, none of those 3 really make it any friendlier, they just lowered the skill standard, and made it easier to win with no skill/effort. You may call me crazy, but I have all the people and guilds that left as evidence (not to mention the majority of opinions expressed in this thread). What HA neads is more "aids" to new players (no, not the disease...). A perfect example of what I term an "aid" is observer mode. That is a huge boon to new players, so that they can see the builds and tactics that good teams are using. Also notice that observer mode doesn't change HA in any way, or decrease the standard of skill. HA needs less bandaid changes, and more features to really aid new players that don't directly effect matches. An lfg system is another perfect example of an aid to new players to make HA innately more friendly. We need more things like this, and less gameplay changes.

Nurse With Wound · Nov 24, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Theres no need for me to take part in this silly quarrel with bhavv who is clearly a young and misguided individual. I also stated my opinion what has to be done in the first few pages of this thread.

I fully support what Ephekt is saying here, and I salute you that you still have enough patience to carry on this argument with bhavv dude

slimreb · Nov 24, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

@ slimreb:
Heroes did make HA much more accessible to you, but there are other ways of doing it, that do not involve drastic changes to core principles in HA.

That is true Lord Mendes. My ranked Guildie and I are starting to convert some of our current Guildies into wanting to do HA. I attribute this to us using heroway. They sort of feel left out of the fun when us two talk about some of the things we have seen in HA.

I would love to see more human teams in HA as those were the only ones who gave us any challenge with the build we were using. Those were the matches that were really fun. Our build, which does not use any FotM skills, would benefit greatly from human controlled players who know when to use the skills.

The other ranked players make some very good posts on why heroes should be limited in HA. I have no problems with doing this at all.

Sir Vengence VI · Nov 24, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Keep 6v6,
Reason: RA & TA are 4, HA is 6 and GvG is 8.
Which provides a nice balance, @ all the people who want 8v8 agian, heres a thought. "Go Play GvG."

Keep the Heroes as they are not 'Overpowerd' beacuse Heroes have the same AI, making them predicible and you cant play complexed builds with them, simple because they wont know what to do. So if you keep losing to a hero team whos fault is that? and it gives players that are like r4 a nice way to win some fame, without having to play with know-nothings.

Secondly
I realy belive and so do lots of other people that the Paragon is way unbalanced. I think that the leadership energy get back is the proplem as it is 2high. When your playing a Paragon energy is no matter becuse its allways full which means E-Surging doesnt help.

To Finish
TIME LIMIT MUST BE ADDED TO ALL MAPS!! Even if there is no-winner after x mins then both teams get booted as it will shurley end all the lame 30+mins for one fame and then you just end-up rolling in anyways. And it will make holding Halls req. skill once agian and not retared paragons going. "HAHAHA 2 damage on Eviscerate GG."

I hope Gaile Gray reads this post

Legendary Shiz · Nov 24, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

LOL. i'm impressed that someone is getting the joke and is riding on it

Kind of like your mom?

keke, <3 Syra

tomcruisejr · Nov 24, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Kind of like your mom?

keke, <3 Syra

well, sorta. and i'm still waiting for mendes' reply if he indeed got the joke. lol.

<3

NeHoMaR · Nov 24, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

The problem with heros is that they kill the fun for the players who aren't just trying to grind fame.

Wrong, I play for fun with heroes, I love control them, I love winning versus ranked team full of 6 real people, and see how they explode in hate, and that is the reason people such as you hate heroes in HA. And yeah, I am ranked, and yeah, obviouslly I play with full 6 real people too, for fun too!

HA is fixing alone, with of without heroes, 6vs6 or 8vs8, with or without IWAY, VIMway, bSpike, ... whatever, HA always fix itself with time, everyone had seen that in the past 2 years. IMO, the only ArenaNet must fix is the overpower, players fix the rest.

BTW, why not just remove the henchies (not heroes) from HA? even in 8vs8 you could still play with full heroway. The "trick" is don't allow solo HA, and pugs will return faster than now (pugs are already returning slowly, like I say, HA is fixing itself)

God Apprentice · Nov 24, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Vengence VI

Keep the Heroes as they are not 'Overpowerd' beacuse Heroes have the same AI, making them predicible and you cant play complexed builds with them, simple because they wont know what to do. So if you keep losing to a hero team whos fault is that? and it gives players that are like r4 a nice way to win some fame, without having to play with know-nothings.

To Finish
TIME LIMIT MUST BE ADDED TO ALL MAPS!! Even if there is no-winner after x mins then both teams get booted as it will shurley end all the lame 30+mins for one fame and then you just end-up rolling in anyways. And it will make holding Halls req. skill once agian and not retared paragons going. "HAHAHA 2 damage on Eviscerate GG."

Hero Ai is a bit overpowered because as I stated in an earlier post a Hero Mesmer was interupting our human mesmer who was casting interupts.

The time limit I can agree with as matches really can grind on for too long just for a few fame points

Yeah we ran a pug and got beat by Heros (our monk pug hadn't played in 5 months so our fault). But it really makes me mad that afterwards number 1 on the Hero side said "rolled". Kinda making bad players, if you know what I mean

Program Ftw · Nov 24, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Vengence VI

Keep 6v6,
Reason: RA & TA are 4, HA is 6 and GvG is 8.
Which provides a nice balance, @ all the people who want 8v8 agian, heres a thought. "Go Play GvG."

What if I have just played GvG and want to play 8v8 HA?

And for heros, the whole thing seriously sucks. HA isn't worth playing anymore, playing against scrubs with some Searing Flames hero's in halls, non stop isn't enjoyable, when you do HA now and get to Halls, you just hold for 60 consecs, playing vs more and more and more and more heros...

I admit when 6vs6 first came along, I "was" actually enjoying it, the meta was balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars

Guild Wars is a Competitive Online Role Playing Game with an emphasis on rewarding player skill. In large head-to-head guild battles, cooperative group combat, and single player missions, players will explore a fantasy world while pursuing professions and acquiring skills to develop their own personalized character. Unique items, special abilities, and a wide variety of skills add meaningful value for the player and for their comrades. Missions are not scripted adventures, but are open battlegrounds where victory is determined by skill and teamwork.

I would like to note, 'teamwork' 'skill' 'emphasis on rewarding player skill' heros don't help any of this, and is going against what 'Guild Wars' was meant to be about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars

Guild Wars is a Competitive Online Role Playing Game

I want to face Competition, not Mindless NPC bot things that just die...

Limit Heros to Hero Battles and PvE, please.

If people want to play with Heros vs other Heros, then let them play in the Hero arenas, not HA, they don't belong there. Because that's what you guys at Anet have done at the moment, HA is basically HvH.

Thanks,
Program~

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 24, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Hero's are in no way overpowered, yes they have quick interupts and good heals, but they can't bond, they can't preveil, they can't position, they can't do anything but use their skill bar unless you tell them to.

Yes a good player can win with heroes. Too bad 90% of the heroway players just charges in and lets the heroes activate their skill w/o bothering about them.

In such a case heroway=free fame, if it's a good heroway team you have just lost from a good player.

Simple as that.

But yeah, teams who say shit like: ROlled/0wned etc. = people with short dicks.

Anyway.

Program Ftw · Nov 24, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

But yeah, teams who say shit like: ROlled/0wned etc. = people with short dicks.

Nice theory, however, I think you should try to lower you eViagra a bit, that wasn't really needed.

Thanks,
Program~

phasola · Nov 24, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Keep 6v6,
Reason: RA & TA are 4, HA is 6 and GvG is 8.
Which provides a nice balance, @ all the people who want 8v8 agian, heres a thought. "Go Play GvG."

No. 6v6 is here for almost 2 months and either everyone has quit, or playing paraway/searingway/heroway.

Quote:

Keep the Heroes as they are not 'Overpowerd' beacuse Heroes have the same AI, making them predicible and you cant play complexed builds with them, simple because they wont know what to do. So if you keep losing to a hero team whos fault is that? and it gives players that are like r4 a nice way to win some fame, without having to play with know-nothings.

Read above posts. Did anyone complain about heroes being overpowered ?

Quote:

Secondly
I realy belive and so do lots of other people that the Paragon is way unbalanced. I think that the leadership energy get back is the proplem as it is 2high. When your playing a Paragon energy is no matter becuse its allways full which means E-Surging doesnt help.

Shame Anet doesn't do balance changes in mid season.

Quote:

To Finish
TIME LIMIT MUST BE ADDED TO ALL MAPS!! Even if there is no-winner after x mins then both teams get booted as it will shurley end all the lame 30+mins for one fame and then you just end-up rolling in anyways. And it will make holding Halls req. skill once agian and not retared paragons going. "HAHAHA 2 damage on Eviscerate GG."

I don't see how this can help. People will just time skips.

Quote:

I hope Gaile Gray reads this post

She stopped reading at page 2.

Sir Vengence VI · Nov 24, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Well Boo 2 u 2

qvtkc · Nov 24, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Vengence VI

Keep 6v6,
Reason: RA & TA are 4, HA is 6 and GvG is 8.
Which provides a nice balance, @ all the people who want 8v8 agian, heres a thought. "Go Play GvG."

GvG isn't open to everyone. Yes true, "join a guild", but what if you already are in a three man guild that you made with your friends and that you therefore don't want to leave, you enjoy 8v8 but can't do GvG?

But wait... There are two 4v4 arenas? Here is a thought: keep RA 4v4, let TA be 6v6 and let HA go back to 8v8. That way TA would become a bridge between the training grounds of RA and the high competition of HA, while that competion would be brought back to the only open-for-all high-level PvP arena there is, namely HA.

JodoKast · Nov 24, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

There are basically two arguments put forward against hero:

1) heroes have godly reflexes, awareness, they are overpowered, i can't beat them -> nerf please.

This type of argument is not that much used and is not really compelling either. If heroes were really overpowered, everybody in HA, GvG,.. would use them all the time (you would be stupid not to, look at all the strong skill setup and their wide usage)

i'm not going to last long on that argument.

2) heroes are boring to play against, competition level is at an all time low,...

This argument doesn't have anything about heroes but about the fact that the people using the argument find the current level of play boring. It basically translates into : heroes have made HA accessible to more noobs, i don't want to play against noobs

Here, the key thing to remember is that HA was never designed to match you against teams of your level but rather to be an open tournament where everybody can compete. The argument against "heroes being boring" is no different than the similar arguments held against spirit spammer teams, holding builds, iway, vimway,... of the past. This is pure elitism in my opinion.

There is one place in this game where a "match against equal level" scheme is implemented : gvg. All players that were really striving for challenge have migrated to there now. This is for the best as it has the potential to dramatically increase the level of play there as a result.